CEO of The Better Meat Co. and author of Clean Meat: How Growing Meat Without Animals Will Revolutionize Dinner and the World, Paul Shapiro joins me to discuss 1) why blended plant-based/meat hybrid products make sense, 2) the future of cultivated meat and fermented proteins and 3) the business models that will win out in the end. Above video is part II. Part I of our conversation here. Transcript available, if requested. Podcast here.
Here is a short clip from our long-form interview above with an accompanying transcript.
Elysabeth: You know, you’ve done so much work in this space, but you really did start in the animal activist space, not the business space which is where you are now. You’ve had such a transition in your professional life, I’m wondering what you wish you knew ten years ago that you know now. And if you want to make that five years, you can.
Paul Shapiro: Well, many things, in fact, but just as a brief conclusion I’ll say this: I used to believe that it was enough merely to point out how poorly animals were treated or how bad for the environment what we’re doing is or even that’s bad for your health. But that’s not what motivates most people’s food decisions, and the reality is that people don’t make their food decisions most of the time relating to animal welfare or the environment or really even their health. They make their food decisions as you have pointed out time and again, Elysabeth, on taste, price, and convenience. And so I have spent a good amount of time, in my view, basically making arguments that are not that compelling to people. They may be compelling to people like you and me, but they’re not compelling to most people and we have to accept the reality. We have to play the cards as they’re dealt.
And so I look back at every category of animal usage that has ended and virtually every single time a category of animal usage has ended it’s not been because of humane sentiment. It’s been because it’s been rendered obsolete by a new technology. We no longer exploit carrier pigeons, not because we care about them, but because the telegraph was invented.
We no longer use horses for labor because cars were invented and tractors were invented. We don’t hunt whales anymore because we don’t need whale oil because kerosene and later electricity was invented. We don’t really use quill pens anymore that were live plucked from geeses bodies because fountain pens were invented. And the list goes on and on. You know, we’re not hunting down fireflies anymore not because we cared about fireflies but because luciferase was synthesized.
So many categories of animal usage that were actually ended- now I know that there are some people out there that will say that we still use horses and some people are still whaling. Yes, I know but it’s a tiny fraction of what it once was. Those industries had largely gone and I can’t think of a single example ever of any category of animal usage that ended because people cared about the animals. Sadly, I mean can you think of one? I can’t think of a single one. I just named about half a dozen categories of animal exploitation that actually ended because it was rendered obsolete by a new technology.
And so what I wish I would have known earlier is that, really, if you want to move fast and you want to make a difference, rather than just making arguments about the ethics of what we’re doing, actually start doing what people care most about which is basically creating things that are more efficient, more cost effective and better and superior just like digital photos replaced print photography, just like streaming replaced DVDs. We need to create the edible equivalence of streaming and digital photos and do that in a way that renders our current horrible treatment of animals totally obsolete.
Elysabeth: I do care about animals. I’m looking to displace animals not just from the food supply system but I’m hoping cellular agriculture can displace the hunting of endangered animals for medicinal purposes in Asia. There’s all these other markets that are smaller markets but exist and take their toll on animals and I’m hoping it can address those as well.
But you’re one hundred percent right, it’s never for the animals it’s always about business, and efficiency always wins. And this is what I love about working in this field. You know, I feel bad for the rest of the world and particularly this year, 2020. It was negative information every day for an entire year for the majority of people unless you were working in the plant-based space and then you had good news practically every day. I mean every day is about innovation and better efficiency and making moves forward and I don’t need to convince people. I don’t need to say “but your health and animals.” The bottom line is this is going to save you money and it’s a much more efficient way.
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